Can one “thought” be more important than another “thought”
if all such impulses originate in the same place (brain) and are composed of
the same electrochemical ‘stuff’? Is a thought impulse to meditate any more
significant or profound than the thought impulse to pick a bugger from your
nose? Both result in an action, however, you’re programmed to feel a tad bit
guilty about digging around in your face. Is guilt nothing more than hating the
thought impulses that arise in your head in the belief you have a choice in
what impulses your brain provides and when?
Every experience you have ever had, you had in the brain.
No matter where you were, you were only ‘there’ in your
brain and every place you ever visited was experienced by you because of that
3lb lump between your ears. All the woohoo, whizbangs you got from years of
vigilant spiritual practices, were provided to you exclusively in the fissured
fat housed firmly in your cranium.
The very “self’ you identify with, is a direct result of billions
of microscopic neurons all linked up with one another generating different
impulses from different experiences and storing that information for future use
and “you” will rely on this information throughout your entire life, much of it
without conscious intent because you had no choice in the formation of your
brain circuitry and, hence, no choice in what it provides.
You experience yourself in a brain and even bodily
sensations and impulses are brain processed. Every emotion is generated in your
brain through unique circuitry linked up in your head, processing responses in
nano-seconds in ways that only you could experience and no one else.
Seems you really are a unique little snowflake after all!
Unfortunately, “you” exist as nothing more than a brain and
have no personal responsibility beyond the impulses that brain provides. You are
free of all guilt, shame and remorse for all the nasty sheit you did wrong your
entire life simply because you have never had personal responsibility for the
thoughts that arise in your head. Everything you did had to have been done
exactly as “you” did it and it couldn’t have been done otherwise.
So why suffer?
Did you decide to have that thought before you had it or did
it just simply happen? Do you choose a thought before you think it or has every
thought been influenced by other thoughts themselves influenced by external
events resulting in programmed responses?
Have you ever had a thought that was not directly influenced by external events, including bodily impulses? Have you ever had a thought that you could proclaim was the result of your being a unique little snowflake and was not influenced by external events and programmed responses?
The raw brute reality of the naturally occurring causal
order is a fact that we are not particularly fond of and we employ fictional
realities to escape that fact, requiring each programmed fiction be linked up to a myriad
of other circuits, all influencing one another.
You have attached to numerous fictional realities to aid in
getting out of your head. Most intentions to control thought are motivated to
relieve you of thought impulses you do not wish to think and you don’t like the fact that
we have no control over our thinking. It’s not that you don’t like your life, it’s that you don’t
like the ‘thought’ impulses bouncing around in head cheese that inform you that
your life sucks. You then look to fictions to redirect electrochemical impulses.
Such fictions can be found in religio-spiritual ideologies which often seek to
emphasize egocentric consciousness as something special and unique and outside
the predetermined causal order. Or we just turn our brain over to the TV, which
then externally influences the direction of neuro-circuit impulses and this is
why egocentrics require entertainment to escape their own non-volitional brain
impulses.
Yet, no matter how you seek to escape your mind, practice
your thought control techniques, meditate for hours, pretend to “be in the
now,” study scripture, chant your mantra, do the rosary, achieve “no mind,” etc,
etc, etc, blah, blah, blah, you can’t escape the raw brute reality of living in
an indifferent causal order along with other egocentrics who seem to always
find a way to fook up your kumbaya plans for enlightenment, generating brain
impulses you do not want to ‘think,’ but can’t avoid and, hence, grit and grind
over.
But am I not in control of these words I write? I learned
these words and, hence, they were provided to me, each one generated and
contained by its own neuro-circuit in the language centers of the brain. Your
brain-centered, electrochemical ‘thought’ impulses were given to you and there
are only so many ways words/concepts can be strung together to generate ‘meaning.’
But what lifelong series of events brought me to this point in which my brain
is utilizing neuro-circuits to string together these words in just this way? Am
I really in control of impulses that motivate other impulses that generate
these sentences?
However, many claim that this mechanistic engagement with
the predetermined causal order (God?) is just another story. Yet, is the fact
that the sun rises and sets simply another story? Possibly, if we stretch the
imagination far enough we can come up with all kinds of other hocus pocus
conclusions to explain that fact (and there are many such stories out there).
However, we cannot deny it is a fact that you use to conduct your entire life,
every day of your life. Days, weeks, months, years, decades, centuries, etc,
are all fictional boundaries not found in nature, but based on a rising and
setting sun and necessary for egocentric existence in a fictional social paradigm.
So when science completely deconstructs and reduces the ‘self’ to a simple, mechanistic brain process, what stories will be told and how will we live out our lives knowing this as a fact similar to the rising and setting of the sun?
Will you hate science for taking "you" away from your "self"? Will “you” still struggle mightily to consider your ‘self’
a special little snowflake, demanding everyone else see you as such, else you will 'feel' bad? When it is
discovered that the ‘self’ is merely a location in a cranium, and has nothing
to do with agency, because no free-will exists amongst billions of neurons
transmitting impulses based on influences beyond the brain’s control (as it
has been programmed to do) along trillions of dendrite wires, how will you
conduct your life?
Will it make a difference knowing you have no free-will in what you think and do and that you are nothing but a puppet directed by a predetermined causal order that preceded your existence, but granted that existence nevertheless?
Will you be “happier” knowing there’s really nobody up
there and that it makes no difference what you “think”? Will you finally
experience the freedom that not having a ‘self’ to contend with provides? Will
what you ‘do,’ no longer take on grave significance upon recognition that there
is no ‘doer’ of anything ever done? And if no ‘doer’ ever did anything, will
you experience an incredible relief for all the “bad” things you did that still
require you experience guilt and remorse? Will the hatred for those who have
‘done’ wrong to you simply dissolve into thin air because there is no longer
anyone to blame? How much attention will “you” require when there is no “you.”
What will the world be like when no one considers themselves special little snowflakes?
Hi mike ok im struggling with this (at least my brain is). I believe thoughts just arise but dont we have control of what to do with that thought? For example a thought might arise for me to pick my nose, but if im in a group of people I would certainly choose not to pick my nose, so isnt that sell control? As im choosing to not do that in front of people x or say I was in a shop and the thought arose to steal a chocolate bar then I could choose to ignore that thought couldnt I ?
ReplyDelete"I believe thoughts just arise but dont we have control of what to do with that thought? "
ReplyDeleteCertainly thoughts influence other thoughts, based on programmed responses, but you would never have a 'chosen' thought that was not influenced by a preceding thought, itself influenced by an external event (which includes bodily impulses).
"For example a thought might arise for me to pick my nose, but if im in a group of people I would certainly choose not to pick my nose, so isnt that sell control?"
But why would you NOT pick your nose on public? The nomads of the Kalahari do it regularly. Social programming is brain circuitry. You cannot have a thought of any kind without the circuitry necessary for the impulse to be transmitted. Problem is...most of that circuitry was implanted long before you could change it and so you're stuck with it.
Hence, you are correct. You do make chooses. But those chooses are based on programmed circuitry that you had no choice in constructing.
You would choose to NOT to steal the chocolate bar. Unless, of course, if you were starving. It's all entirely based on external stimulae.
Great questions. Keep 'em coming. Make 'em harder and light up my circuits!
Mike
thankyou! Very well explained, I understand exactly now what your saying x just thinking though if say my partner cheated on me (because of his programmed circuitry) my programmed circuitry would still want to do nasty things to his nether regions haha x
ReplyDeleteIndeed. An event happens and, based on programmed neuro-circuitry, a response occurs. This tends to explain why our lives often seem so repetitive, because for every action there is a programmed reaction. Of course, one can change habits. However, this desire would also be influenced by various external factors demanding a habit be altered. The point is that choices are made, but all choices are externally influenced and based on internal programming. There is absolutely no free-willed volitional choices.
ReplyDeleteLife is happening to you, so you may wish to just sit back and enjoy the ride (that is, if your programming brings you to the point)
Thanks,
Mike
Nice mess you've written here mike. I'm tryn to come up with some questions but i'm all out.
ReplyDeleteI've been growing an interest in neuroscience and its discoveries about the brain, and also Sam Harris.
*So when science completely deconstructs and reduces the ‘self’ to a simple, mechanistic brain process, what stories will be told and how will we live out our lives knowing this as a fact similar to the rising and setting of the sun?*
The sun never rises or sets it seems like so but it's not true, i bet ppl dnt look at it that way they just assume that it rises and sets without looking closly. It's probably the same with the “self“.
Abe.
Hi Abe,
ReplyDeleteIndeed. The rising and setting self...
mike
Mikw u say life is happenin to you but in other posts you talk about taking responsibility for what we see, that we make up the world we see and that nothing is thete till we look for it? So isnt the world hapoening by me? Not to me?
ReplyDeletewhere else is the world but in your neuro-circuits?
ReplyDeleteThis blog spans some 5 yrs. Hence, 2008 is no longer valid in the evolution of my circuitry. However, it is fun to look back at the progression.
Now, how to link the dream with the neuro-circuits...
Difficult task.
Any suggestions are welcome.
Mike
maybe seeing the dream is taking responsibility for what we see x
ReplyDeleteMaybe...
ReplyDeleteAlthough, it seems, the problem with responsibility is that it then assumes we have control and this asserts free-will.
I would suggest that we have about as much control of the dream as we do with the firing of our neurons...none, nada, zilch, zero.
But I only speculate...
Mike
So really there is no one to blame for anything and that it is only guilt that keeps the sense of ego going, along with depression, anger jealousy, anxiety etc x
ReplyDeleteIndeed just speculation I'd say. At the end of the day, it's very obvious that your body and external world is doing things, there is an interaction between all things and that has always been like that, wether you think there is a self or no self or free will or not, wether that's fair or correct or not. It seems like you just like to (over?)speculate (for whatever reason), while it's really simple.
ReplyDeleteJust speculating though! :)
Kind regards
Y.
"So really there is no one to blame for anything and that it is only guilt that keeps the sense of ego going, along with depression, anger jealousy, anxiety etc x"
ReplyDeleteWhat is there to feel guilty about in a predetermined causal order in which free-will does not exist and everything happens only as it must?
Mike
"it's very obvious that your body and external world is doing things, there is an interaction between all things and that has always been like that, wether you think there is a self or no self or free will or not, wether that's fair or correct or not. It seems like you just like to (over?)speculate (for whatever reason), while it's really simple."
ReplyDeleteExactly. We are constantly interacting. Yet, the interactions are not volitional because a free-willed self is delusional. You have never made a free-willed choice, because every choice has been causally predetermined since before your birth and the birth of your parents, on and on, etc, etc.
Now how to realize and live with that conclusion is not very easy for some, but for others it's a cinch because they had no choice in the realization anyway.
Mike
Oh Mike.
ReplyDeleteYour knowledge of this alleged brain that you speak of exists as a subset, as everything does, of the mind, i.e., of experience. Have you ever seen this brain that you speak of? If you've seen a brain, have you ever observed it generate a mind? If you've done that, you deserve a Nobel prize, because you've solved the "hard problem of consciousness" (I'm sure you've heard of it).
If a tree falls in the forest, but no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound? Think hard about that. What is a tree falling in the absence of you observing it? I'll give you a hint: you quite literally have no idea.
What does a pizza look like? How'd you get that picture of a pizza in your mind? You took all of the pizzas that you've seen and projected an image of pizza. How do you know that when you see a pizza, it's a pizza? Because at some point, someone said to you "this is a pizza" and you believed them.
The point here is that all we have is experience. What the fuck is experience? What is it made of? How is it possible? The only reality you'll ever know is the one you experience. Any attempts to theorize about what the world objectively is are just amalgamations of your..... experiences, which are inherently subjective. Not to be cliche, but you only made this post because you see separation between yourself and the contents of your perceptions, i.e., the world as you know it. If you could see that everything exists as a subset of perception and that perception is the biggest mystery of all time (at least to me), you wouldn't be wasting your time with this pointless speculation.
Alter the brain in anyway and you alter consciousness. Shut the brain off and consciousness is done. Under aenesthesia I can place probes on your brain and cause experiences. Let's stop inventing hocus pocus theories, utilizing concepts such as "mind" and "thought," as a means of lifting egocentrica mammalia into some sacred woohoo realm of higher existence above and beyond the causal order.
ReplyDeleteAll experience is brain activated and alter that structure and you alter the experience. It's that simple. Each word you write, each concept you invent, "subset of perception," are linked up neuro-circuits in the brain transmitting electro-chemical impulses that were first constructed in your formative years. How do you know to call that thing a "pizza"? Easy. Learning experiences impacted upon your neurons. It's really that simple.
There's nothing complicated about this stuff. But in man's desire to remove himself from the natural order, he demands himself be some sacred vessel of infinite consciousness, blah, blah, blah, etc, etc, etc and this allows him to destroy himself and his habitat.
"experience" is nothing more than electro-chemical impulses already wired in. You respond to your experiences in the ways you are programmed to respond.
This is why it often seems as if everyday is exactly the same.
Thanks,
Mike
Mike,
ReplyDeleteYou seem to be inferring that my position was an attempt to remove myself from the natural order, but how do you know this? Can you insert yourself into my mind to know what drives it? Seemingly, you can't. You can only interpret what you read through your own existing thoughts. In writing the article, reading my response, writing your response to my response, and you can toss in the entirety of the rest of your life, you never left your own mind.
Because you have no idea of the potential relationship between your mind and whatever is external to it, you really have no idea what the true nature of what's out there is. It's only hocus pocus if you haven't really, really considered what I'm talking about. There is more evidence that the universe exists in your mind than there is that your mind exists in the universe because the existence of the mind is unassailable but the existence of the universe is not. Does the schizophrenic person think that what he experiences is reality? What about the dreamer? If you consider it a waste of time to ask these questions then fine. That's cool with me.
Can a born blind man ever know what pizza looks like? Can a deaf person born that way ever know the sound a cow makes? No. Just thank God you were born with all your senses. Because you didn't ask to be born at all, how about you thank Him for everything He has given you. The reason I am not seeing through your eyes Mike is because I have a separate spirit that controls the body I have. Study that instead. Just be thankful rather than question something you will never understand as long as you are breathing in air that someone else gave you, who we clearly know as that spiritual being called God.
ReplyDelete